Things youth pastors tell me in secret
Today I am facilitating a workshop with about forty youth pastors from southern Missouri.
In getting to know youth pastors around the country, I have often heard complaints about their staff relationships, especially with their Senior Pastor. Comments about isolation, pain, and alienation have been more common than reports of friendship, admiration, or synergy.
So I have asked the Y-pastors here today to form small groups and discuss this issue: What would you tell your senior pastor if you felt safe enough to say anything?
Here is a summary of the reports from the groups:
1. We still feel like we’re treated like children. We need to be trusted more, with more than just the youth ministry. We need more freedom.
2. Most of us love and respect our senior pastors, some more than others. Good relationship on the whole, but if there is a barrier it’s a communication problem, a lack of understanding, not a lack of love.
3. Do not lie to me. Stand up for us. Help us financially. Share your vision with us. Remind us to rest.
4. Instead of trying to be understood, we need to try to understand. Sr. Pastors go into denfensive mode if you question anything. A big blood vessle pops in their neck.
5. One group felt like everyone had a good relationship with the Sr. Pastor, but needed to exercise wisdom in picking the time to talk to the SP. One person worked under “the General.” We have the same vision, but a different way of getting there. We may never want to be a SP. A couple of spouses mentioned care in expectations of the spouses.
6. SPs need to be reminded that the 80’s are dead. Many of us had good relationships with SP so we feel we could say anything. “There is an open door there.” We need to realize that the SP is the leader and maybe we are wrong. We need to ask, “What can I do for you, pastor?”
After these reports, we but the groups back together and asked them to address a second question: What could be done to improve the youth pastor/senior pastor relationship?
Here is a summary of their group reports:
1. We can go to the SP with just about anything. We just need to prove ourselves. Quit whining about it and show the SP we can do it.
2. Recognize that the SP is a man of God and has something to offer and has something to invest in us. And we have things to invest in the SP. We need to invest time with one another.
3. We need to open dialogue to get communication started, then guard our hearts from bitterness, and remind ourselves why we are doing what we do. Forget about the politics.
4. Supporting the SP’s vision and asking how we can help is important. We need to support the SPs vision no matter what. Find ways to show appreciation for the SPs support. Respect the SPs authority even if you disagree.
5. Do more fun things together. Spend time togther to build relationship. Listen to the heart of each other. Both be willing to step outside our comfort zones. Value each others time. Really listen to each other. Involve the SP in some events to support your vision by seeing it in action. (e.g., sleep over at SPs house).
6. Most of us have a good relationship with the SP. All relationships are either evolving or devolving. Don’t take the relationship for granted. We won’t travel this way again. Guard the authority of the pastor; don’t take advantage of friendship. SP’s may fear this and so hold back on getting to know us.
The District Youth Director also offered some comments on this issue:
1. Many of these issues are universals because they are people problems. The same things happen in the business setting. We’re shocked because we think ministry shouldn’t have these problems, but we do.
2. Biblical principles are key:
A) Sowing and reaping: we have to invest into what we want to see back.
B) Good relationships are simple relationships based on simple dynamics like spending time together.
C) Do unto others as we would have them do unto you.
D) Many SPs have seen YPs come and go over the years, so they are reluctant to bond with you because their effort will be wasted.
Put yourself in their situation and start being what you want to receive back. Trust creates trust, etc.
E) Problem is often that we feel we have nothing in common with the SP. We need to invest time and grow the relationship slowly. You may need to buy coffee 10 times to get one lunch invitation back.
I closed the session with this comment: Envision yourself on the other side of the desk with a 19 year old YP in front of you. Be the person that you would like that 19 year old to be on that day.
An observation: broken relationships with the Senior Pastor have always showed up as a huge issue in these small group exercises. This time around things were different. The level of respect and affection for SPs expressed here has never been has high as it was today. Does this mean that I was interacting with a unique group, or is the anger/cynicism level among YPs in decline, or are more SPs starting to get it right?
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Earl Creps—a popular speaker and leader—is director of the Doctor of Ministry program and associate professor at the Assemblies of God Theological Seminary (AGTS) in Springfield, Missouri. He has been a pastor, ministries consultant, and university professor. Along the way, Creps earned a Ph.D. in communication at Northwestern University and a doctor of ministry degree in leadership at AGTS.
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sounds like fantastic conversation! I can relate to much of that even though we’re the “young adult pastors”
I can only speak anecdotally, but my SP was also at one time my own YP. As a result, he’s constantly putting himself in my shoes. I honestly believe that the SP sets the tone for his/her staff. It’s the YP’s role to support SP, but great strides toward that goal can be made when the SP empowers the YP to do so through openness, receptivity, mentoring, face-time, etc. I’m truly grateful for our working relationship, and I quickly admit that I’m only half of the chemistry.
Earl … I have to tell you that I stumbled onto your site from a link from the Deep Ellum Church in Dallas. I am surprised and grateful for you as a resource and pioneer in this conversation. Being a boomer myself and struggling with relevance in today’s culture actually led me to resign my church two years ago after spending 10 years there and 30 years total in full time ministry. I’m definitely “off roading” ... just wanted you to know that another is benefiting from your experience.
wayne gooden
I think that the same sense of community we are trying to achieve in the church as a whole gets ignored in terms of church staff. The pecking order is so primary in some situations, and in others, time is just never taken to share life, encourage, and inspire one another…Which is funny, because it is what we preach.
As I former youth pastor, now Sr. Pastor (church planter). I can relate. Those of us that our now SP’s need reminded of this. Great article, and Off Road is a great read. Thanks for the book.
As someone who has been through 3 SPs in three years (and enjoyed all of them), here are some things that were a common thread:
1. Open Door Policy. I appreciated knowing that I could talk to any of them candidly anytime I needed to about anything I needed, whether it was advice, support, etc.
2. Knowing up-front that the SP supported the staff in conflicts. This has been very rare, but also very important.
3. Feeling that the SP in interested in the youth ministry. All accomplished this in different ways (with one, we went out to lunch once a month just to discuss YM, another had shorter weekly meetings, another asked for all mail-outs in his box and met with me whenever we were both free), but all took a vital interest in YM.
4. The current pastor went on the youth ski trip! This was amazing for the youth as well as for me, because a lot of things went wrong, and I felt supported and calm because he was there.
5. I talked to all of them about personal things—my goals, my relationships, my family. I think being friends made it easier to like them when I didn’t necessarily like the things they did. This was not necessarily a two-way street, as they have all been old enough to be my father or grandfather, but I felt almost a family-like relationship with them and their wives.
Just my 2 cents.
I’m not a YP, but I am on staff at a small, traditional/contemporary church. I sometimes find it challenging to talk to my SP because of his tendency to interrupt or comment under his breath. But, to his credit, if I can get his attention, he will listen. I like having an open door policy.
Sometimes I feel like he can be too pushy or restrictive, but he does give us a little more freedom once he trusts us.
Overall, my experience on staff has been a positive and extensive growing experience and I appreciate the wisdom I can glean from their leadership and this season.
By the way, thanks for writing a great book on going off-road!
Clark
I wish I had this info when first starting out in the ministry world. WHERE are you speaking in MO?
great stuff Earl! Thanks for this!
This is great stuff. I would be interested in hearing some thoughts concerning board/YP relationships. Whereas a YP is in somewhat of a constant relationship with the SP. The board relationship is complicated due to the lack of contact. A lot of the issues that develop seem to be dealing with common misconceptions concerning the type of person that is filling a position.
What an important issue: Improving ministry effectiveness for all involved in the church—YP, SP, Worship Leaders, et al. Our experience 30 years ago as YP was foundational in forming our views as a SP—some good along with the bad. Not all YPs are called to be SPs, but each ‘pastor’ does influence church members. We’ve tried to treat YPs as we wanted to be treated, but that wasn’t the answer. YPs can be valuable in strengthening the growth of the church family while partnering with a SP. Integrity, Godly character and Christ-like manners are desirable. Oh, that we could experience that instead of betrayal, criticism, cynicism & division! Mutual respect and Godly authority issues need to be addressed somewhere along the way of expectations.
Great stuff. I sent it to me sons. One is a Pastor of Student Ministries and has a great relationship with his SP ( who is our age) and the other is a sophmore in college, majoring in YOuth Ministry.
This was very helpful and at this time I really needed all the information above. Thank You and may God bless you!